Podcast – Finding your PhD Feet

Voice Over:

Welcome to the NIHR Dementia Researcher Podcast, brought to you by dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk in association with Alzheimer’s Research, UK and Alzheimer’s Society, supporting early career dementia researchers across the world.

Adam Smith:

Hello, and thank you for listening to the Dementia Researcher Podcast. For those who are new to listening, in our fortnightly podcast, we bring together dementia researchers from all areas of research to discuss their work and general career topics that will be helpful to early career researchers. And whilst mostly we talk about Alzheimer’s disease and other forms of dementia, our career topics should be of interest to anybody pursuing a clinical or academic career.

Adam Smith:

I’m Adam Smith, and today I’m joined by four PhD students who are just taking their first steps into their PhD. Today, the PhD Completion Project estimates, and these are scary stats just to freak out, particularly Felicity who I’ll introduce in a moment, the PhD Completion project estimates that only 55% to 64% of people who begin a PhD in STEM, particularly, finish and 56% in the social sciences and 49% in the humanities.

Adam Smith:

Those are particularly scary stats. I have to say though, I haven’t necessarily seen that in my work. I think most of the people I’ve come across, who’ve started a PhD have finished. But let’s go on and introduce our guests today. Today we’re going to discuss, what motivates our guests to follow this path? What motivated them? What life’s been like for each of them? Sharing their questions and stories so far. So hopefully, others in the same situation will know that they’re not alone.

Adam Smith:

We’re going to talk today about what it’s like to take those very first steps into a PhD. I’m delighted to introduce Tiffeny James. Tiffeny is an excellent dance player and a PhD student looking at Equity in Service Provision for People With Dementia and Their Families at University College, London. Hi, Tiffeny.

Tiffeny James:

Hi, Adam.

Adam Smith:

I’d also like to introduce Chloe Tulip, who is studying Sleep in Dementia at Swansea University. That is when she’s not playing roller derby. Hi, Chloe.

Chloe Tulip:

Hi.

Adam Smith:

I’ve also got a Felicity Slocombe, who will be studying Identity in Dementia at Loughborough University. When I asked for a fun fact, she told me that she has a very squishy nose. Which I’m sure we’ll talk about later. Hi, Felicity.

Felicity Slocombe:

Hi Adam. I’ve definitely got a say in that one.

Adam Smith:

Last but not least, we have artists and animal lover, Brendan Commane, who’s studying his PhD at the Royal College of Art, looking at Environment in Care Homes For People With Dementia. Hi, Brendan. So, hello everybody. Felicity, I can’t help, but think that maybe you and Chloe need to get together and swap hobbies. Because with a nose like that, you’d be awesome at roller derby, right?

Felicity Slocombe:

Yeah, it’d be really great. Whenever I fell on my face there’d be no broken nose.

Adam Smith:

Exactly. That’s perfect. People who haven’t met our guests yet could of course see their profiles on the website. But Tiffeny coming to you first, do you play in a league for darts?

Tiffeny James:

No, I definitely don’t play in a league. I did consider joining one, when I lived in Brighton, it was an all ladies league but mostly retired ladies. Then I moved to London and now we’re just play at the park.

Adam Smith:

Have you had ever had 180?

Tiffeny James:

No. I’ve not had.

Adam Smith:

[inaudible 00:03:57] Are you reliable on closest to the board?

Tiffeny James:

Exactly. That’s kind of my strong point. Yeah.

Adam Smith:

You didn’t rush out and immediately buy a dart board as soon as lockdown started?

Tiffeny James:

No. Luckily I had a friend that had one. This was before lockdown, that’s how I got into it. I just spent many, many, many nights perfecting my dart skills.

Adam Smith:

Seriously though. What year are you in? And could you maybe tell us a little bit about your studies?

Tiffeny James:

I’m in my first year, I’m 10 months in, at UCL. My project is funded for three years by the NIHR and it was a project that I applied for. So to kind of generally looking at equity in service provision for people with dementia and their families. I’m starting quite broadly looking at different minority groups and then kind of funnelling down to people from minority ethnic groups and then more specifically people from a South Asian background in the UK. That’s the kind of brief overview of my project.

Adam Smith:

Fantastic. That sounds interesting. This is a supervisor who advertised for a specific project they’d already got in mind?

Tiffeny James:

That’s right. Yeah.

Adam Smith:

Well, that’s quite interesting because I think we’ll come to that later, because there’s obviously people pursue and how they end up in a PhD slightly differently. And I do wonder whether when you apply for a PhD almost more like a job than through funding of your own, whether that’s easier to come into something that’s already, to some extent, fairly well defined as opposed to trying to define that for yourself.

Tiffeny James:

It was interesting, even though it was a quite defined project, I still had a lot of free reign about what I was going to do, which in a way was hard as well, trying to figure out what I should be doing.

Adam Smith:

Well, that was good. What I was going to say, actually was, I suppose to some extent, it’s nice to come in, but also as well, whether that can be quite inhibiting, particularly if the supervisor’s got a very clear view as to what they want done as part of that work, as to whether you get to make it your own still. Chloe, let’s continue next. Roller derby, that’s a pretty tough spot. And I have to say, I didn’t know this term. I did go away and look it up. Are you a jammer?

Chloe Tulip:

I did see that and I thought, “Wow, that’s a really good knowledge of derby there. No, unfortunately I’m not because they like us to be really safe. In order to play a full match, you have to pass minimum skills and the laps are the thing that I’m stuck on. So you have to do 27 laps in five minutes, which is so hard. So hopefully, I’ll get to play soon and be a jammer.

Adam Smith:

So you’ve got to do 27 laps, speedy on. Ad these are roller skates, right? Nobody uses roller blades in roller derby.

Chloe Tulip:

[crosstalk 00:06:40] skates, yeah.

Adam Smith:

That sounds cool. And of course, we’re going to talk about this later, but keeping your sanity by having outside activities and people to talk to and things is important too. Can you tell us a little bit about your studies, what year you’re in and-

Chloe Tulip:

Sure. I’m about nine months into my PhD and I’m studying at Swansea University. My PhD is looking into sleep and dementia. The title of it, which I’ve written down because it is a mouthful is, Looking At The Influence of Sleep on Psychophysiological And Cognitive Functions in Healthy Older People and People With Vascular Dementia. So some of the things that I’ll be looking at are, I’ll be doing some neuroimaging studies later on down the line with near infrared spectroscopy. And I’ll also be looking at mismatch negativity, which is an event related potential, which is just like a measurable brain response using EEG, in response to an odd stimuli.

Chloe Tulip:

If I were to say, “Beep, beep, boop,” the last boop is part of a change detection. So you’d actually have a measurable response to that. You can use that in early detection. We’ll be doing some sleep studies with that and things and looking at emotional memory consolidation. It’s kind of a mix of things that I’m looking at.

Adam Smith:

And sleep’s definitely come up the agenda, it’s been quite high profile. There was lots of discussion about the importance of sleep at the AAIC Conference last month, particularly as a risk factor, but also as well, looking at how the brain works. So you’re in a good place for… Not that you’re already thinking about post PhD, I’m sure.

Chloe Tulip:

Oh gosh, I don’t know. One step one step at a time.

Adam Smith:

Sleep’s always in [inaudible 00:08:45]. I’ve been involved in a few sleep studies and they’re always quite difficult to recruit to as well, I think. Particularly getting people into those sleep labs. You will have a lots interaction with people living with dementia as well as part of your work.

Chloe Tulip:

Yeah, as part of the first steps of my PhD, it’s really important to make links within dementia because prior to starting my PhD, I actually had no experience in dementia. I was mostly focused on acquired brain injury. I just so happened to get the dream PhD for me shortly after and I was a bit worried I didn’t have much experience. Now I’m creating links with the community and I’m sort of becoming like a volunteer, be-friender, things like that. I think lockdown’s had a real impact on the ability to recruit for sleep study. So now we’re having to do lots of things online with questionnaires, which aren’t as rigorous and aren’t ideal, but the University is supporting me really well through that.

Adam Smith:

Having to think out of the box and maybe turn to technology more as well. I mean, obviously we’re doing that ourselves as individuals. But turning to that for your research as well must be quite tricky. I don’t know about you, but I do like there to be a direct line of sight between my work and the people that are benefiting it too. I know talking to quite a lot of people who are working lab based research, are trying to do more to come out so they can connect their work to the people that are going to benefit.

Adam Smith:

It’s always quite interesting, I think, to have that role. But equally can be, I don’t know how you found it, I’ve spoken to quite a few people that found that quite hard to start with. Just knowing how to talk to people, what to say, what not to say can be quite tricky and there’s no training for this. It’s something [inaudible 00:10:36]. How did you find that?

Chloe Tulip:

I’ve been kind of lucky in the sense that before starting this, I worked with people with acquired brain injuries for three years on a one to one basis. I’ve done lots of training on sort of getting to know your clients really well and kind of having that lived experience of what is okay, what isn’t okay. And essentially, having that thing where you’re like a friendly professional not professional friend. That’s been really, really helpful. Hopefully I’m going to use that to take with me, but also I’ve got some really lovely people in the Swansea Carer Center who are helping me in coaching through and really, really like supporting me, which is really nice. Because as you say, I think it’s more of a lived experience thing to acquire.

Adam Smith:

The Welsh advocacy groups and things like that are fantastic as well. I know Chris Roberts quite well, who I know is very active in Wales and I’ve spoken at a few dementia friendly kind of meetings and things there as well. So you’ve got a great community of people to work with in Swansea.

Chloe Tulip:

Yeah. I’m really lucky.

Adam Smith:

Thank you. Felicity, I’m not to pick on your cartilage anymore. Just tell us about your work. I mean, obviously, we spoke offline about this before. You haven’t quite started yet.

Felicity Slocombe:

No, I’m starting in October. The project is about Identity in People Living With Dementia. So I’m quite lucky in that. My supervisors have already collected some data which they’ve looked at that, but there’s like so much more to look into it. And so there’s like a data set of interviews and just observations of people with dementia and their carers, their family members, and also in a memory clinic as well as you’ve got the two contexts of like a professional environment and the domestic environment. And I’m going to use conversation analysis, to look at how issues of identity are kind of talked about in those settings and kind of how they’re like healthcare professionals as well, respond to someone who’s got dementia. Saying stuff about losing their memories and all the changes that they’re going through.

Felicity Slocombe:

So that’s kind of one of the main focuses that the project will have. And then as well, there’ll be like a big survey of the general public looking at fear of dementia, dementia worry, as dementia is kind of one of the most feared conditions and even more so than cancer now. It’s kind of looking at how the increased media representation of dementia in recent years has impacted on how people think about dementia and what they think it entails.

Felicity Slocombe:

And as kind of a follow up to that I’d like to get people living with dementia involved and to kind of look at different [inaudible 00:13:46] of the [inaudible 00:13:48] of media, people talking about what they think dementia is and people living with dementia actually describing their experiences of maybe once they diagnosed, how people kind of read them differently. From what they’ve seen in the media, from what they’ve seen in newspapers. I’m really excited to get started but nervous. It’s really interesting to me. I think I should be one of the ones that completes it, hopefully.

Adam Smith:

I have to say, I’ve spoken to quite a lot of people before they’re going to start their PhD. And you’ve got a pretty clear picture there. I have to say speaking quite eloquently about what you’re going to do. I don’t think you’re going to [crosstalk 00:14:36].

Felicity Slocombe:

It’s a similar situation to Stephanie, in that it was a project that I applied to. I’d previously, the year before applied for Masters and PhD on the SRC Funding, which I didn’t get, but I decided I’d try and just do the anyway. And then I reapplied this year and luckily got it. It was quite nice to have a project that was kind of thought through already and it was quite similar to what I’d previously proposed, which was nice, but it had like extra elements that I hadn’t thought of. I think it’s a good thing to have a proposed project as well as what Tiffeny said, my supervisors are quite happy for me to lean out, see where I’d like to go with it and focus on different elements more so than others. So that’s really good to have that flexibility too.

Adam Smith:

Well, that’s exciting. And doing it for Yorkshire as well as a proud Yorkshire man myself, I can say that. I don’t know if any of you have seen, but Selena Wray works at University College London as well, where I work. She has recently kind of had some profile out of being a working class Northerner, who’s now a professor. Do you find things like that inspiring?

Felicity Slocombe:

Yeah, definitely. It’s quite weird for me because both of my parents are still there, and they have always lived in Yorkshire. So it’s kind of like the mix of both. I don’t have a particularly strong accent, so I think when people meet me, they don’t necessarily, there’s like certain words I think and phrases that you can tell. But otherwise, it’s really good to see like people from similar situations to me going out there and achieving what they want to achieve.

Adam Smith:

I think you’re being optimistic in saying you ain’t got an accent.

Felicity Slocombe:

I don’t think I don’t have an accent, I just don’t think it’s [crosstalk 00:16:28].

Adam Smith:

Let me tell you from Sheffield. I’m the same. I’m from Leeds, I’ve lived in the South [inaudible 00:16:34] when I was 18 and I recognize it in myself, even though I don’t think I sound like I’m from Yorkshire. But everybody says, “Yeah, you do.” No hiding. I’m not quite Ned stark. Do you know?

Felicity Slocombe:

Yeah.

Adam Smith:

That sounds fascinating. Thank you for joining us Felicity. I did just another question, has your start date stayed on time because of the pandemic or have you had to-

Felicity Slocombe:

Yeah, it has. Luckily, when I got the offer confirmation through, there was like an option to defer it if I wanted to, but it’s still going ahead. At the moment there are students are going in PhD students are able to go into the office like one day a week. But they’re hoping that by October it’ll be more like two or three days a week.

Adam Smith:

Does that mean you’re about to make a big move as well? Are you moving?

Felicity Slocombe:

I’ve already moved. I’ve got a flat. I moved in about three weeks ago. So yeah, just wanted to make it kind of homely before I started the PhD and everything went a bit chaotic.

Adam Smith:

I’m sure we’ll come to talk about that. But that’s another element, right? I mean, not only have you got the stresses of thinking about how the study is going to work, you’ve got that combined that with moving away to a new place, potentially moving away from friends as well, combine that with the stresses of this kind of scary thing that is doing a PhD.

Adam Smith:

Brendan, we haven’t forgotten you. I will come to you. I think it’s fair to say that you and I are probably around the same age, we’re a little bit older than our other guest.

Brendan Commane:

[crosstalk 00:18:14].

Adam Smith:

You’re not coming to this as a first career. This is something you’re continuing your study.

Brendan Commane:

Yeah, I’m a teacher. I just decided that I wanted to do something around dementia because I had a time where I was at care of my aunt with dementia and I had to put her into a care home. And prior to that, I knew nothing about dementia. That prompted me to go and do an MA with a focus on dementia. Well, actually, with the carers of people who were looking after mostly their husband or wife with dementia. That was great and I loved it. So I decided to just carry on, really.

Adam Smith:

That’s interesting, of course you add a different perspective as well. Is, just because we get a little bit older and wiser doesn’t mean that stepping into a PhD isn’t equally as daunting, I guess. Perhaps more so because she kind of slightly, you’re aware of everything else. It’s a bit like starting that new job where, I’ve started new jobs where you sit there, twiddling your thumbs and going, “Okay. Is somebody going to tell me what to do?” And I know from your bio that you’re funding this yourself. Does that mean that you are yourself driven, you are having to design this?

Brendan Commane:

Yeah. I am. And because on part time, I was really panicked about doing this initially and thinking, “Where is it going?” But then I thought, “Actually, I’m doing it for myself and hopefully for the benefit of people with dementia.” And that’s my focus, really, to just do something. And my PhD is a mixture of practice and theory. With the end of it, I have to produce something that’s hopefully useful for people with dementia. So that’s exciting for me because my background is art. I’m in the School of Design in RCA. So, I’m sort of getting used to the whole idea of working as a designer rather than an artist as well. Artists tend to sort of ask questions where design is sort of trying to come up with solutions. And I’m sort of struggling a bit with that, but I’m slowly getting there. It’s really interesting and yeah, I’m loving it.

Adam Smith:

When you say something useful, do you mean implementable? Is this some kind of like intervention that could be… because I know you mentioned care homes in your, is this something activity based or is this something useful?

Brendan Commane:

What I’m hoping to do is, a few things. I had to look around a few care homes and I wasn’t really impressed, I have to say, with the environment in a lot of them. I wanted the residents to have more choice. What I’m thinking of doing is, looking at technology, which I think this pandemic has also thrown up, a lot of care on the need to be more tech friendly. I’m looking at technology to actually create more visual environments in a care home.

Brendan Commane:

And the residents can actually take control of that visual environment. And I’m looking at it through, because I’ve done quite a bit of research around their attachments with soft toys or soft blanket. I’m looking at if I can integrate that through the use of sensors and sort of projections to create a more visual environment, that the resident can take more control of and have more autonomy over their environment as well.

Adam Smith:

That’s fascinating. Thank you, Brendan. I know as well at AAIC, one of the exhibitors had done something with projection where they projected moving images from above a table that you could interact with and if you touched the table, you could move things around. I think maybe Chloe, they do things like that in brain injury as well. Don’t they? I think some of that sensory stuff.

Chloe Tulip:

Yeah. As you said, like the interactive mood… I don’t know. Are they projectors? I’m not sure what they are. They’re really cool.

Adam Smith:

Honestly, thank you very much, everybody, for joining us. I know we’re going to talk about what it’s like to kind of take those first steps in your PhD, but I wanted to make sure everybody knows kind of what you’re working on. Because I think those differences are key and can influence particularly about what you’re studying and how those first days are about how you arrived at that.

Adam Smith:

Tiffeny, sorry. I’ve forgotten already. Remind me, how long have you been studying now?

Tiffeny James:

10 months into my PhD.

Adam Smith:

10 months. Okay. So it’s about the same length of time as Chloe. Tell me, how have those 10 months been?

Tiffeny James:

I would say the first month was hard. Spent a lot of time staring at my computer screen, trying to figure out what I was doing. I remember crying at my desk at one point because I just had absolutely no idea where to start. And everyone just said, “Go away and read, read all the literature and figure out what you want to do.” And eventually things fell into place and the questions came up. But before that, I felt completely lost. It took about a month and a half to get a bit of structure into what I was doing and then even longer to develop it more. But the first month was hard.

Adam Smith:

I think I’m constantly reminded, I have friends that have kind of come away to do fellowships and things like that and saying, you can’t be too hard on yourself, particularly in that kind of first two, three months. Because I think we are so used to being told what to do, if you like, particularly in undergraduate work that then suddenly sitting there and having to be self-driven and decide for you. It’s hard. Right?

Tiffeny James:

Yeah. And it was quite kind of a creative process. I don’t think of myself as a very creative person. I’m more of a kind of structured, process driven person. I like doing all those things. But having to come up with something myself was hard. But I can already tell that my skills at doing that have got better over the PhD. So it’s really nice to see that developing.

Adam Smith:

How were those first few months for you, Chloe?

Chloe Tulip:

Honestly, I’d say very, very similar to Tiffeny’s. I’m not sure if I cried, but I’m pretty sure I was holding them back at the desk. I did feel a bit like a duck out of water to begin with. I was almost scared of asking my supervisors questions, because I felt like if I asked a question, it would raise the idea that I clearly didn’t know what I was talking about, I didn’t know what I was doing and I was not the right person for the PhD.

Chloe Tulip:

So, with my supervisor. I’m really lucky that both really, really lovely and easy to chat to. I remember I said something, I was like, “Oh, sorry if this sounds silly,” and my supervisor was like, “No, no, no. don’t ever say that. Just ask questions. There’s no such thing as a stupid question.” I think from that, I really went away and had to coach myself on, I’m not going to know everything. That’s the reason why I’m doing the PhD because I’m starting from a zero point and there are going to be a million questions along the way. It’s best you just say them. I feel like that process really then started, gave me traction and I started then feeling a lot more comfortable with it. Because even if I didn’t know, I could just ask them.

Adam Smith:

Just coming back to you again, Tiffeny, did you feel like you were prepared for that? Did that come as a surprise?

Tiffeny James:

I think it was a bit of a surprise. I’d just come straight from a master’s at UCL. Which again is quite structured. You can choose from a list of questions that you answer and you’re doing an assignment. So yeah, having that kind of free reign did feel different. But now that I feel like we’ve got a plan I’m back on track with the structure of things. Things could change, but at least I’ve got a little bit of an idea where I’m supposed to be heading. But I think it was a surprise at the beginning, yeah.

Adam Smith:

Not all supervisors are amazing. We’ve done a whole podcast about 12 months ago on finding the right fit of a supervisor and almost making a really careful decision as to… I suppose it’s a little bit different if you apply for a job that comes with the supervisor rather than seeking one out. And if you are quite keen, I guess, I don’t know how many people apply and then decline because they’ve decided, “I don’t think I’m going to get along with that supervisor, if offered.” How have you gotten along with yours?

Tiffeny James:

Really well. They’re really supportive. I was lucky that two of them actually supervise me for my master’s dissertation. So I got to see whether we worked well together. So that was a really nice opportunity. And yeah, very approachable. Like you, Chloe, no such thing as a silly question. But I definitely had that feeling as well of not wanting to ask too many questions at the beginning and thinking I should just be doing it. They always said that wasn’t the case as well, but it’s hard to take that on board.

Adam Smith:

So the takeaways from that really sound like, obviously I haven’t come to you, Felicity, because hopefully you’re sitting there and digesting this and thinking. Right. Okay. Definitely don’t be too hard on yourself in those first few months. Do take advantage of the supervisors. Don’t be afraid to approach them and talk to them as well. We are going to record another podcast later today, which will be out in two weeks’ time with some people who have come out the other side of a PhD getting their top tips. I’m sure they’ll do. It’s okay to feel a little bit lost at the start. What about you Brendan? Because you had a slightly different perspective.

Brendan Commane:

Yeah. And I had a break between doing my MA as well. So getting into the whole mindset of studying again was tricky. We have, I’m sure a lot of you have, doctoral training weeks. And the first week was a really intense doctoral training week. We had just a series of lectures and seminars and I started to self-doubt and thinking, “Gosh, am I going to get through this?” I think what I have found really difficult though, it’s a very solitary process and it’s quite isolating. I think that since the pandemic, it’s been even more isolating. And because I’m part time, I only have supervision once every six weeks. So there’s quite a long gap in between most supervisions. My supervisors are very good, and I can email or make telephone calls to them as well.

Adam Smith:

I think the isolating thing kind of comes up particularly kind of during lockdown. I guess it depends to some extent on your domestic arrangements, whether you’re house sharing and mixing with other people that are studying. Felicity, you mentioned you’ve just moved. Is this university accommodation?

Felicity Slocombe:

No. I’ve moved into a flat on my own. I’m not sure if I’ll live to regret that. Maybe. I’m quite lucky in that one of my best friends lives just around the corner and when I also did my undergrad and masters I lived with her. So there’s people that I know that are still around and the girl that did the same masters as me and was just finishing her first year of her PhD. So I’ve kind of got a few friends as well around, which is really good.

Adam Smith:

And of course, the universities are open again. I guess everybody’s returning to campuses and can mix with people in it. Because I think that does come up again, is it’s seeking out people who are in the same situation as you to try and talk to them. Brendan, it’s tricky for you because I can’t imagine there are many people doing a PhD at the Royal College of Art in dementia.

Brendan Commane:

No, there aren’t. And my supervisors actually, dementia is not her thing either. That’s a bit tricky. But my second supervisor is very much into neurology and the brain. So that’s helpful as well. She went [inaudible 00:31:27] in September. We are still having all our lessons and seminars and tutorials online to at least January.

Adam Smith:

Okay. Well, I guess every university is taking this slightly differently, aren’t they? So, those early days, coming back to you, Chloe, did you have some study activities arranged in your first couple of months? Those learning weeks?

Chloe Tulip:

Yeah, we had an induction week, which was kind of nice because I got to meet all the other PhD students on the psychology floor. I’m also really lucky because we’re all putting an office together. So there’s two big offices and it’s really social. There’s one girl there, who’s just the key socializer. She’s always organizing drinks and dinners and things like that. So that’s really handy. And then they take you around all of the key staff that you’d be handy to know and introduce you. It all feels really friendly and supportive. That first week it happens right at the start. So it is good timing and a good week.

Adam Smith:

How have you found studying for a PhD different from the under grads? I can’t remember. You did an MSC before?

Chloe Tulip:

Yeah. I did BSC in Psychology at Swansea, and MSC in Clinical Psychology at Swansea. And now I’m at Swansea.

Adam Smith:

You’re staying at Swansea. You know what? That often comes up as people going, “Oh, well you should move around.” But actually I think, particularly if you’re doing a PhD, knowing who your supervisors are, knowing that already having been comfortable with the place and the environment, I think can make a big difference.

Chloe Tulip:

I think it’s Swansea. Because there’s so many beaches here and it’s a city, but it’s not too big and everybody’s Welsh and really lovely. So yes, it’s really enjoyable. I forgot your question. What did you ask me?

Adam Smith:

How did you find studying for undergraduate degree compared to this last few months of your PhD?

Chloe Tulip:

Oh yeah. Okay. I think the main difference really, is that with MSC and BSC, you have cool modules that you don’t really get to choose from to an extent. Sometimes it might be stuff that you’re not so interested in studying and then revising and things like that feels really laborious and arduous. I feel really grateful because this is my absolute dream PhD. I don’t think I could have chosen one better myself. It doesn’t feel like that. And it’s nice to study something really in depth in just one topic. So that’s really nice. If anything, I actually prefer it and it feels easier. But I don’t know if something’s lurking around the corner about to make me not feel that.

Adam Smith:

You’re full time for three years?

Chloe Tulip:

Yeah.

Adam Smith:

How about you, Tiffeny?

Tiffeny James:

It’s a very different experience to undergrad and just because it’s less structured. I hated my undergraduate studies, so I’m having a much better time now, in my PhD. Probably just because I’m either older or just generally happier. Like Chloe said, actually it’s something that I’m really interested in, not having to do anything like a core module.

Adam Smith:

If you really hated undergrad, why on earth would you stay in academia?

Tiffeny James:

I didn’t. I left for four years and I worked. I worked in the [inaudible 00:35:12] sector and then as a support worker for people with dementia, with Alzheimer’s Society. Which I absolutely loved. But it was during that job that I kind of had a case load of maybe 100 people a year. And I just felt like actually I wanted to do a bit more, maybe do something from the top so that it could kind of trickle down and impact more people in a positive way. That’s why I came to do the master’s with the idea of then doing a PhD. And I’m so glad I came back because I love academia now.

Adam Smith:

I think that’s important. For me, I think being passionate about the subject has got to be there deep down at the core of this. Because if you don’t really care, if you’re just doing this because you want the doctorate or you couldn’t think of anything better to do, there are probably the people that fall into that 40% that don’t finish. I think that people like you who are… I think you also do really have to care and it’s got to be there at the core to drive that success. I don’t know if you’d agree.

Tiffeny James:

Definitely. [inaudible 00:36:16]. I think the great thing about dementia research is that it does have a real world impact that’s positive and it feels that you’re working towards something that’s actually going to benefit people in real life. And that’s like so much more valuable than going out and chasing a job for money, I think.

Adam Smith:

As I mentioned, in two weeks’ time, I am going to be talking to a bunch of people that have come out the other side. And I’m really interested, tell me, what do you need to know? What questions should I be putting to them? Felicity, I’m going to come to you first. What do you want to know from that old hand?

Felicity Slocombe:

Actually, it’s so hard to think. Because obviously I haven’t started yet. The questions haven’t come. I suppose it’s just the kind of knowing how you actually would structure your time management, I think is going to be a big thing, like what they’ve learned from the PhD, looking back and how their time development has developed and strategies for that. As well as maybe, I’ve never published research before. So, I’m looking to publish my master’s dissertation. So any advice on that and kind of let the whole review process that they were talking about on the WhatsApp group, about getting comments from reviewers and stuff. And that’s something that I’ve never had to deal with before in my studies. So that is something that would be really interesting to know as well.

Adam Smith:

I think whenever I find myself being uncertain on what to do, I tend to kind of turn to the things that make me feel like I’m being productive that I feel quite comfortable with. So, reading papers kind of burying myself in a literature review, always feels like a safe place because it feels like I’m not doing nothing. I’m not sitting there thinking, “Oh God, what should I be doing?” You’re using your time valuably. Whether it will be useful or not later on, but at least I felt like it was doing something.

Adam Smith:

Actually, maybe we’ll come to you Chloe, to talk about that. Talk us through, what does a typical day, week look like for you now? Okay. Pre-lockdown.

Chloe Tulip:

Okay. I’m a definite night owl. I’m much more productive in the evening. I do tend to have quite slow mornings and I’ll just walk my dog and just do all the admin bits. And then I tend to sort of sit down from about 12:00 in the afternoon until about 4:00 ish, and then I’ll revisit later on in the evening. So I have like a little break or I’ll go for a run or do something fun. I work well if I don’t have a rigid structure because otherwise I look too far to the future and go, “Oh gosh, that’s so much work that I’ve got to do.” So I like to say, “You know what? If you want a day off tomorrow, fine. But that means you’ve got to work on Saturday.” Things like that. But that’s all. That’s my week.

Adam Smith:

So you’re one of those people who likes to set yourself some kind of short term goals and go. Ae you a to do list person?

Chloe Tulip:

Yeah. I like doing the easy wins. Writing something on the to do list, which doesn’t need to be written down, but something that I can tick off and go, “Oh, look what I’ve accomplished.”

Adam Smith:

I know that feeling. How about you Brendan? Because it’s a bit different kind of part time.

Chloe Tulip:

I’m definitely a morning person. Generally, I start working around 10:00 and I definitely have a to do list and it’s usually things that I’m halfway through and I know I’m going to finish so I can tick things off and feel good about it. Then there is this sort of long-term things that I think that sort of going to take a fare well. I’ll start work on it. My supervisors told me a few times to be kind to myself. I’m sort of taking that advice as well. I’ve actually taken about a week and a half off recently and feeling much better and more sort of focused in a way. I think it’s really good to give yourself a break and step away from it and come back to it with sort of fresh eyes and new thoughts, really.

Adam Smith:

I would agree. I think taking those first few months to find your feet, these are long programs, it’s a three to five year thing, depending on what you’re doing. And taking time to get it right, to feel comfortable. I think rather than putting too much pressure on yourself in that first kind of six, 12 months is important. But what’s your days look like Tiffeny?

Tiffeny James:

Mine are very structured. Maybe might seem a little bit over the top, but it works well for me. I get up and I’m at my desk by 9:00. I like to think forward to all the things I’ve got to do. I did just a couple of days ago, I thought, “I’ve got a presentation in October, a presentation [inaudible 00:41:29] my upgrade. I need to hand that in at this point so that I can get the feedback.” So pretty much planned out every day for the next two months. That’s roughly what I should be working on.

Adam Smith:

You very much in that treating this like it’s a job? You haven’t fallen back to falling out of bed at 11:00?

Tiffeny James:

No, and I guess, I don’t know what it’s like-

Adam Smith:

Like Chloe.

Tiffeny James:

No. I think I just got into the 9:00 to 5:00 mindset for my work and it works for me. And then the evenings I can completely switch off and on weekends I switch off. It works really well for me.

Adam Smith:

It’s interesting. I wonder whether people who continue right from being 18 or undergrad in education, right through to the end of the PhD, particularly if they stay at the same place, how easy it is to change that mindset. Because Chloe, I mean, I’m not picking on you, you’re joking about your late nights, late mornings. But I guess you’re in the same place now that you were in five years ago as an undergrad.

Tiffeny James:

Yeah.

Adam Smith:

As people, we move on, but I wonder whether it makes any difference moving institutions, kind of gives you that reset in your head. Did you manage to reset for a new course? Or does it feel like it’s all this continued?

Tiffeny James:

I think because I was working full time. During my undergrad and masters, I worked full time through both. And I think towards the end of my masters, I was feeling a bit burnt out because it was just too much. My shifts were 8:00 Am to 8:00 AM the next day. I’d sort of get there and sleep and then go home the next morning and then I’d be doing stuff for papers and my dissertation. And it was just all too much. I did think about perhaps doing that like sort of 9:00 to 5:00, but I just realized I’ve always been a night owl. So this time, I’m kind of, again, the same viewpoint, I’m just being a bit kind to myself and saying like, “This is the best way that I work.”

Tiffeny James:

It does sound funny and I do like laughing at it, but I guess it’s like works for me. It’s nice to talk about it though, because I think lots of us night owls do you feel like there is a bit of a stigma with it. Because I’ve listened to so many podcasts, obviously I love to sleep so about the stigma about waking up late. Because it doesn’t sit with society’s views. I remember when I first started, I did have an honest chat with my supervisor and I said, “I might not be available at 9:00 AM, for the next three years.” My supervisor was absolutely fine. “You do you.” So I’m like, “Oh, great. Will do, thanks.” And I have to say, I feel as healthy and the best I’ve ever been. It’s really great.

Adam Smith:

I’m the same. I work best at an evening. I’ll kind of return to my desk at 8:00 PM, 9:00 PM in the evening. And then when everything is quiet and it’s a bit dark outside is when I’ll… There are less distractions. I’m very easily distracted and in the evening there are less distractions. There’s no emails coming in and people messaging you or calling you. How about you Felicity? Are you preparing for this?

Felicity Slocombe:

Yeah. I’ve been working as a research assistant. I actually started on the first day of lockdown. So I’ve been working from home trying to do like a 9:00 to 5:00 routine, for the last six months. I feel like that has helped me kind of get back into the mindset of doing research and working around those hours. I’m an early riser as well, so I probably will do that. But as well, after lunchtime, I always have like an afternoon slump where I just kind of need a half an hour to just kind of have a cup of tea and get myself ready to continue.

Felicity Slocombe:

But once I get through that, I can usually continue until like 5:00. I kind of liked the idea of treating it as a job and having weekends off because not all my friends and family and stuff will be working. So that routine, makes it kind of easier for if you want to do stuff on the weekends. I will try and do that [inaudible 00:45:54].

Adam Smith:

Nobody else can see this, because this is of course audio. Put your hand up if you have a job as well, if you work as well as studying. So Tiffeny, Brendan are still working as well. And you’re finding time to do that. I guess that’s probably another reason why you guys needed some fairly fixed structure to your day.

Tiffeny James:

I have kind of four little jobs. They’re all within the university. Sometimes I use what I would be spending time on my PhD doing just paid work instead. Because I think there’s a kind of an agreement that you can kind of afford to spend one day a week on paid work and do your PhD. You can kind of [inaudible 00:46:46].

Adam Smith:

I’m conscious, we’ve been talking quite a while. I’m just going to quickly read through, because I had a big, long list of questions to come to for everybody here. We talked about if you knew what to expect and it sounds like most of you were fairly well-prepared in so much as you were. It sounds like that coming with a fixed set of instructions, like perhaps your MSC did, did take a little bit of getting used to perhaps. Would that be fair to say?

Tiffeny James:

[crosstalk 00:47:20] Yeah.

Adam Smith:

And so the advice to others that are starting this summer, and Felicity, is, don’t be hard on yourself. Kind of ease into it, learn to relax and wait and talk to your supervisors. That they’re not all monsters. Some might be, but I’m sure they’re not.

Adam Smith:

We also talked about whether it was different from your undergraduate degrees, and it sounds like it is. It’s significantly different. You haven’t got the revision, the coursework. I’d be interested to ask you all that same question in another year’s time, because at the moment does the finish still seem quite far away? And when you get into that last year, that pressure to finish your thesis, that pressure with your viva or whether it goes back to feeling more like studying. We’ll come back to that one later.

Adam Smith:

Family, I’m going to ask this question. Family and friends, are they useful? So many people, particularly who work in sciences, do find it hard to talk to their family. Because they don’t necessarily understand and you can’t explain things to them. So they’re very generally supportive, but you can’t. Has it been helpful to talk to your families, Tiffeny?

Tiffeny James:

Not really. My parents don’t really understand what a PhD is. They know that I’m not going to be a medical doctor now. They finally get that.

Adam Smith:

Are they disappointed?

Tiffeny James:

Well, maybe. They ask, “How is my course going?” “It’s not really a course, I’m doing research and then…” It’s the same for some of my friends, just that I guess that aren’t in that world. So I kind of get most of my support from my PhD buddies at the university.

Adam Smith:

So finding PhD buddies. What about you, Chloe? Are you close to your family? Are they helpful?

Chloe Tulip:

I’d say exactly the same as Tiffeny. I kind of looked at it from the other perspective. Like my sister’s a financial advisor. She’s passed a load of exams and she keeps talking to me about tax. And I’m like, “Hmm, okay.” I don’t know what she’s talking about. So imagine it’s the same way around. I got lucky because my housemates, I’ve got four of them and two of them do PhD. So we just kind of chat away about that, which is really nice.

Adam Smith:

What about you Brendan? Because you’re different circumstance. Do you have children or siblings?

Brendan Commane:

No. [inaudible 00:49:58] well. I’ve been teaching too long, so I don’t have any children. Family, not really. And actually, since we were in lockdown and we’re still having everything online, I think it’s adding to that isolation. Because I really can’t communicate directly with any of the sort of people I’ve developed a friendship with at the uni. I feel it would be great to be able to go back and chat and do all those sort of things. But a lot of the people that I was really close to have gone back to other countries as well. It’s quite tricky, really.

Adam Smith:

I think it’s also, I have to be honest and say, I think he gets a bit harder as you get older. Talking about how you feel and how things are tough. Certainly, these are personal things that I’d rather bottle those things up. I don’t go looking for support. Maybe it’s a male thing as well. Men are always being told they should be more open with their emotions and talking about how they feel perhaps. I think that counts probably the same for people that are doing this a little bit later in life as well. We all need to be pushed to talk more about that. Do we need to push you Brendan to talk about it?

Brendan Commane:

I’m happy to talk about it, but I just haven’t really got anyone to talk about it with.

Adam Smith:

That’s a good question there. If you haven’t got family and peers around you to talk to, where can you go when you’re struggling, when it’s late at night and you’re stressed out about, “I’ve got to do this,” or, “How am I going to approach that?” I think finding that group of people who you can talk to somewhere is important, somehow.

Brendan Commane:

It is. Shortly before lockdown, as that was happening, we had to do our annual progress review. And that was a 4,000 word literature review, an abstract, an updated proposal, a practice review and a 15 minute presentation. And it was a bit of a nightmare because I couldn’t access any libraries and I couldn’t really access anyone to talk about it. Even my supervisor was a bit sort of not that available. So it was a really stressful time. And that was when I thought, if I get through this, I think I’ll get through the whole thing.

Adam Smith:

Well done, and congratulations for pushing through that. And to everybody else who’s in that situation. I do think Twitter, isn’t all awesome, right? Twitter can be a diabolically terrible place. But I think in terms of creating communities and connecting people and finding people in a similar situation to you, I think it is an amazing tool for that job. I think spending an evening reaching out to people and making contacts can make a difference. There are so many people doing PhDs around art in dementia. It’s just finding them. And I think that Twitter particularly is an amazing tool for that purpose.

Brendan Commane:

I should get onto that. Because I’m not-

Adam Smith:

[crosstalk 00:53:46] I know you’re not Twitter, are you?

Brendan Commane:

[crosstalk 00:53:48] Sorry.

Chloe Tulip:

Sorry to interrupt. I was just going to say, another good one for connecting with other PhD students is Reddit. I’m sure there’ll be people who are doing probably a very similar one on Reddit because Reddit’s got everything. That’s another good avenue.

Brendan Commane:

Oh, great. Thanks. Thanks for that, Chloe. That’s helpful. I’ve just got so many, I’ve got Instagram and WhatsApp and I mean with Zoom and Teams and all these things. I keep thinking, do I need any more social media in my life?

Adam Smith:

A lot of people turning away from Twitter. I completely agree. But I think in terms of finding people who are like you, it’s a fantastic tool. Look people up. And I think don’t be afraid to directly message people either in there. I very rarely get negative replies from people who you’ve approached to say, “Hey, I’m interested in this thing you’re doing. Can you tell me more?” I think you do get positive responses from people. It depends on what kind of support you’re looking for, but making connections and talking to people and somebody to bounce ideas off of, I think it can be a useful place.

Adam Smith:

Families are good for a shoulder to cry on, but not really great when you’re saying, “Do you think this is the right form of words to explain this in?” And it might be different for, obviously I’m conscious that none of us here are lab based researchers as well. I think it’s probably slightly different if you’re going into a lab every day and doing experiments and working slightly differently. Supervisors are helpful too.

Adam Smith:

It’s a bit of a personal question, but I did have something in here about money and stipends and things like that. Do you feel that is something that’s kind of constantly there in the background? Because money concerns can become all-consuming and I think still students don’t earn lots of money. Has that being a worry for you all? Felicity, have you got everything in order? Of course, we know Chloe has got her sister’s financial advice and her sister’s earning all the cash, so hopefully she’s passing a few quid Chloe’s way.

Brendan Commane:

Sharing the love.

Adam Smith:

You don’t have to go into detail, but I’m just interested. Does it help when you’ve got all those things sorted out?

Felicity Slocombe:

Yeah, I think definitely. I’ve managed to save some money from the job I’m currently doing, because I was just working from home so I wasn’t paying rent or anything, which my mon was very good about. I managed to save some money and then the program’s funded as well. So I should be all good.

Adam Smith:

That’s good. I know there’s lots of talk recently about stipends and trying to make them more frequent and things like that. Somebody was getting them quarterly. Tiffeny, do you get your stipend quarterly?

Tiffeny James:

[inaudible 00:56:52] It was quarterly. They’ve just changed it. From October, it will be monthly. You would have to kind of split it into three and I would like give myself a month’s worth each month because I need to know how much I’ve got each month. My stipend is just about enough to live off, but I also want to save some money. So that’s why I’m doing the extra work and I just tuck that away. It’s liveable.

Adam Smith:

I mean, that’s just it. It’s all good and well saying, “Take time to yourself, take time off, do things.” But if you’re also as well, just about managing to make ends meet, that extra stress in the background, I think probably seeps through into your work as well and being able to sort those things out is important. But again, university is a great places to go for advice. The money support and things like that is there to go. Don’t be afraid to talk about money. If it’s tough, you’ve got to say so. “Hey, this is hard.” Don’t be living on baked beans and never going out. Brendan, you’re not living on baked beans, are you?

Brendan Commane:

No. I’m still doing a fair bit of supply teaching. I also occasionally work for the University of Brighton running a unit of work for MA students. I’m sort of managing actually.

Adam Smith:

Are you selling a few pieces as well?

Brendan Commane:

Well, I was meant to have an exhibition on the, when was it? The 31st of March, but it was cancelled because of the pandemic. I got an email from the gallery saying, “Well, we can have it in 2022 or something.” So I thought [inaudible 00:58:46].

Adam Smith:

You can do it online. Honestly, we’ve talked for ages and we’re kind of definitely coming to the end of our time now. But before I think about wrapping up, I just wanted to come to each of you in turn to kind of just for your piece of advice, single piece of advice for somebody that’s going to be starting their PhD this summer. Single piece of advice for Felicity. And then Felicity, we’re going to come to you for somebody who’s six months behind you. We’ll come to you first, Chloe.

Chloe Tulip:

Oh, me first.

Adam Smith:

Well you’re on the top right hand corner. Did you need another minute to think?

Chloe Tulip:

Please, yes. Come back to me.

Adam Smith:

Okay. Tiffeny, you’re next.

Tiffeny James:

I definitely know what mine is. It’s just ask people how to do things. If you’ve got to do something new, find someone that’s done it and just ask them to show you. And that’s a really good way to make new friends as well. That’s definitely my piece of advice, just ask. Because everyone’s been in the same boat as well. Someone’s helped them [inaudible 00:59:50].

Adam Smith:

How about you, Brendan?

Brendan Commane:

I think I would suggest that you start looking at sorting out your bibliography quite early and whether that’s an online forum or you just do it in a document. Definitely for me, that was something that came up as hard to do that. And your progress reviews, my literature review, it was so useful to have that just in front of me on Zotero and I could just basically cut and paste everything. And just keeping abreast of everything you’re reading, really.

Adam Smith:

I would agree. Chloe?

Chloe Tulip:

Brendan stole mine.

Brendan Commane:

Oh, no. I’m sorry.

Chloe Tulip:

I would say the same thing. I asked everyone in the office for top tips when I started and everybody said the same thing. I’ve got loads of tables with every single paper I’ve read, my notes on it, what I think is going to be important from each one, whether or not it’s useful. And now, I’ve got like a massive document and I’m pretty proud of it.

Adam Smith:

Has it got coloured tabs and everything?

Chloe Tulip:

Oh, good dude. I might paint it up then.

Adam Smith:

When I’m uncertain, I’ll make sure that my spreadsheets are brilliant. Putting formulas in there to add things up that don’t really need to do it. You could make a work of art out of a spreadsheet, Brendan. I would agree with all those things. I think seeking assurance through reading. I think if you do find yourself sitting there being uncertain, I think it’s never a waste of time to read around the subject that you’re working on. That’s always going to be productive, always make notes. I think talking to your supervisor and just at least agreeing like setting yourself some not too specific, but some broad objectives to say, “What do I want to achieve in the first three months?”

Adam Smith:

So, breaking it down into that way and then work around it. If that means you work at, in the evening best, or you work at the weekends best, or you’ve got jobs to do as well, you’ve kind of got those objectives down there and you can work around them. And do turn to your family, do seek out those colleagues and people doing the same thing as you. Felicity your piece of advice for that. I’ll tell you who you are giving advice to. So you’ll have probably heard, I’m trying to think about when this podcast comes out.

Adam Smith:

By now, you will probably have heard a podcast with somebody called Morgan Daniel, who is an MSC student who we’re going to be working with in the next year. She’s doing our MSC at UCL in neuroscience as well in psychology and things. And she’s going to be sharing her experience over the coming year of moving from Glasgow down to London and what it’s like to move to a new place and what it’s like to study through our MSC. And she’s going to share a story with us through the Dementia Researcher website with some blogs and podcasts. What would you say to Morgan who is moving down to UCL this week? I think she’s moving today, in fact.

Felicity Slocombe:

I don’t know. I would say, I guess you already kind of knows the supervisors and stuff. So that was like one of the main things was maybe to get in contact with your supervisors, if they haven’t already gotten contact of you and just kind of chat to them about what happens first, and what they kind of expect for the next weeks. As well, my supervisor is really good at putting me in contact with other people that she supervises that said they’re happy to have a video call with me and stuff. And just kind of, if I’ve got any questions that they could give me any advice. So kind of just building that support community early on before you’ve even begun.

Adam Smith:

I think that’s a good idea. I do some work Sydney University and I talked to some PhD students there last year who, she always takes her supervisor cake, every meeting. Her supervisor was Yong Hi, and every time shed meet, she takes her a cake. She’s a favourite student.

Felicity Slocombe:

That’s a good idea.

Adam Smith:

Taking cake to your supervisors. Well, listen, it’s been fantastic talking to you all. Thank you very much. Felicity, Chloe, Tiffeny and Brendan. Profiles on all our panellists are available on the website where you will find details of their Twitter, including Brendan’s who is immediately going to go away and sign up to Twitter, today. You can find details on all of them on our website, including more about their work. I’m sorry, we didn’t get to talk more about your work, as it all does sound fascinating. I hope you will join us again, maybe, to talk more specifically about your work rather than the studying and potentially to come back in the future as well and to tell us how things have changed as you move into your second and third years and how you get going Felicity.

Adam Smith:

So, thank you very much everybody. If you would like to ask any follow up questions, everybody is on Twitter. And we also, as I think somebody mentioned, Felicity mentioned perhaps, or was it Brendan? We do have an Early Career Researcher, WhatsApp community group, which you can access by the website, if you go to the, “Ask an expert,” section. You can find details on how to join there. And I think that is a fairly safe place where people can come and ask questions. It kind of goes through busy and quiet periods, but please do take a look, join. I think there are people from all across the world in there. So even if you’re having a dark moment at 2:00 AM, when you can’t decide what to write, you can post in there, and I feel certain somebody would reply. And it’s a good community.

Adam Smith:

Thank you very much again, to all our panellists. Please remember to like, subscribe and leave a review of our podcasts through the website. We’re on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Podbean, everywhere where you get your podcasts. And you can ask your smart home speaker to play the Dementia Research podcast as well. And it will do that. So thank you very much, again, everybody.

Felicity Slocombe:

[crosstalk 01:06:19] Thank you.

Adam Smith:

We will look forward to seeing you all again, in our next episode, in two weeks’ time with a group of people, who have come out the other end to be sharing their advice. So thank you very much. Have a good day

Voice Over:

Brought to you by dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk, in association with Alzheimer’s Research, UK and Alzheimer’s Society. Supporting early career dementia researchers, across the world.

END